september 2004

john hayes/wire image

Over a couple of bowls of clam chowder at a seaside cafÿ at the Trump National Golf Course in Palos Verdes, Donald Trump sport [amidst halarious and assorted other distractions] with Inside Tennis publisher bill Simons about tennis and towers, Serean and Sharapova, Agassi and Mac, Jung and old, Einstein and Lincoln, and of course, “The Apprentice.”

INSIDE TENNIS: Ten days ago at Wimbledon, Martina Navratilova said...
DONALD TRUMP: How does your magazine compare with Tennis magazine? What’s the difference?
IT: [Editor’s note: IT then spewed forth a totally slanted, one-sided, semi-unprintable appraisal.]
DT: Okay, go ahead.
IT: Navratilova recently said that in life “Passion is everything, the rest is just details.” Comment?
DT: She’s 100 percent right. But sadly, as we grow older we’re not the same physically. Mentally we may be better because we have experience. In business, as you grow older, you get better because of experience. With sports, experience is also very important. But sometimes experience can be dominated by young, strong, current people.
IT: You’re the world’s most prominent entrepreneur. What’s the joy, the in-your-gut passion, that gets you...
DT: [to a waiter] If you could get me a bottle of cola instead of this.
 Say again.
IT: What in your gut...
DT: Well I enjoy it. I love playing golf, I’m a five handicap, but I actually like building golf courses more than I like playing them. And how many people are given a canvas like this [vast oceanside property]? When you come back here in January you will not believe what will be here. There’s something very creative about it and I like it.
IT: You know, some dismiss you as kind of a surface guy, but your book Trump: How to Get Rich has a lot of interesting stuff. For instance, you quote Carl Jung who wrote, “He who looks outside his own heart dreams, but he who looks inside his own heart awakens.”
DT: That’s good. But who says I’m surface? I haven’t heard that?
IT: I think there’s a stereotype of rich people that’s dismissive...
DT: Could be.
IT: A view that says they’re just interested in only one...
DT: Well, now, The Apprentice is the number one show on TV. It’s the hottest show of the year, and it put me in a light, a true light, people didn’t see before. It’s interesting. What I do is fire people, yet, compared to before, everyone thinks I’m such a nice guy.
IT: And firing someone is the hardest thing to do.
DT: Yeah. So I say to myself, isn’t it sad that people think I’m much nicer than I used to be? I must have had a terrible reputation. But the one thing about TV, especially when you have a number one show, is that the world sees you as you are. You can’t hide. You’re on for hours. So, possibly, you’re right that the world viewed me differently prior to “The Apprentice.”
IT: So the question was, when you look into your own heart, do your dreams awaken?
DT: Yeah. For instance, when some people would look at this [land], they would see a pile of dirt. I see a golf course that’s going to be better than Pebble Beach.
IT: You’ve said that some people like to paint, some people like to compose poetry, but dealmaking is your art form.
DT: I love deal making, but I love the end product [even more]. I love creation, I love creating beautiful things, whether it’s a building, a golf course or the Miss Universe Pageant, which I took over when it was failing, and now it’s one of the hottest shows on TV.
IT: What were your best two or three deals of all time?
DT: Me?
IT: Yeah.
DT: For me?
IT: Yeah.
DT: Well, my best deal is the West Side Yards I’m building in the city. It’s a $6 billion job and the hottest job in the city. But, I’ve made a lot of good deals. Trump Tower’s a great deal. The Chicago deal is going to be great. Have some soup.
IT: I will. So you have...
DT: It’s the best clam chowder.
IT: I love clam chowder. You’ve been out publicizing this club, but let’s say you’re going to publicize it more. For the hell of it, let’s do a tennis version of The Apprentice. So you’ve got three finalists to be project manager to help you publicize this place. One is Billie Jean King, a great entrepreneur and the driving force behind women’s tennis, team tennis and...
DT: She’s a great woman, I know her very well.
IT: Do you know any tennis player that’s been a better entrepreneur?
DT: Well, I’m not sure about Billie Jean as an entrepreneur. I’m not aware of what she’s done other than she’s a great woman. More importantly than being an entrepreneur, she’s meant so much to the women’s game and to women. And I was a victim of watching Bobby Riggs get his ass kicked in one of the greatest performances I’ve ever seen under pressure. You know, one amazing thing was that Rosie Casals, who was announcing, predicted the score — did you know that?
IT: Yeah, she nailed it.
DT: Anyway, Billie Jean’s a great woman, so if you’re comparing her to other people, it’s going to be awfully hard to go against her, but maybe I know the other two people.
IT: Well, you’ve probably heard of a guy named Andre Agassi.
DT: Uh huh, great guy.
IT: Born in Vegas, showbiz sensibility, he just raised $12.5 million for his charity. He has a tremendous sense of...
DT: I know Andre too. Amazing guy who’s married to a great woman. Frankly, I’m a big believer in the woman behind the man and the man behind the woman, and I use Andre and Steffi as an example. I mean Andre dropped down into the 200s [actually No. 141] and then when he got together with Stephanie he became No. 1 in the world again. That tells you about that relationship. It’s one of the greatest examples of relationship I’ve ever seen.
IT: He has such a devotion to her. It’s great to see, and he’s some father too.
DT: So go ahead, you’re giving me a very tough question.
IT: Your last finalist is a guy named Johnny Mac: a savvy New Yorker who’s successful on so many fronts...player, broadcaster, author, TV guy.
DT: Uh-huh, good friend of mine.

art seitz
Donald and future bride Slovenian Melanie Knauss.

IT: So you’ve got to fire one. You’re the man who’s used to making tough decisions and you’ve got to publicize this place. You’ve put up the big bucks, so you’ve got to fire someone.
DT: I can’t fire any of those three. First of all, I know all three. They’re all amazing. Billie Jean is amazing. Andre is amazing, and what made Andre more amazing is the way he came back. Everyone thought his career was over and then he was better even than in the beginning.
IT: He was willing to go out on those backcourts at UNLV and sweat it out the hard way.
DT: And Johnny Mac. I watched his show the other night. It’s going to be a success. He’s a very smart, savvy guy. So, I can’t fire any of those three. Only an idiot would fire one of those three.
IT: You’ve advised top players though, from Hershel Walker and Kareem Abdul Jabar to many top stars these days. Now we’ve seen Maria Sharapova break through. So, if she were here eating clam chowder with us, how would you advise this young 17-year-old Russian beauty?
DT: I’d tell her to be very careful with her money because everybody’s after it. I’d tell her to call me and I will get her the right management. I’ve seen so many athletes... You know, Hershel Walker came to me and said, “Mr. Trump, I’m going to go into a franchise food business. I’m going to put all my money into it, it’s going to be unbelievable.” I said, if you do that, I’ll never speak to you again. So he didn’t do it, and a year later that company went bankrupt. He would have lost all his money, and to this day he thanks me. You know, you mentioned Kareem, he’s a friend of mine too.
IT: Power Memorial High School.
DT: Most of his money was mismanaged or stolen. That’s a very sad thing, when he’s maybe the greatest center of all time. He doesn’t get credit for that because people don’t like him. But you know, if you analyze the centers, Kareem may have been the greatest center.
IT: Better than Wilt Chamberlain?
DT: Well, maybe. He won more than him.
IT: Better than Bill Russell?
DT: Well, more spectacular than Russell, but how can you knock a guy who won eight or nine times?
IT: Back to business. What’s more important in business: vision, intuition or...
DT: You know, Sampras lives near here, literally right here in Palos Verdes. And so does Tracy Austin.
IT: Davenport came from here.
DT: Does she live here now?
IT: No, she’s down in Newport Beach.
DT: Well Sampras lives here.
IT: Pete is actually now in the Hollywood Hills, but he was raised here.
DT: I’m thinking about putting in courts here.
IT: You should. But what does a guy from Queens, New York, think of L.A.? What’s your take?
DT: I’m here because NBC asked me to be at a big thing last night celebrating The Apprentice. But the beauty of what I have here is that now when I come to L.A. I don’t feel guilty, because now I’m building this big project.
IT: And New York? It has a special quality, that intense, non-stop, in-your-gut feeling? It’s singular.
DT: It’s got an energy that no other place has. No matter where you go, people say that. Even non-New York people admit that there’s an energy there that no other place in the world has.
IT: What about Ashe Stadium at the U. S. Open? Is it a screw-up? Is it too big?
DT: Look, I got used to Forest Hills, then I got used to Louis Armstrong stadium, now it’s Ashe stadium. It’s a great stadium with great sight lines. Of course that’s easy for me to say ‘cause I’ve got the best box in the stadium.
IT: So, let’s get down to the nitty-gritty. You took over the Miss Universe Pageant, which judges beauty. So, who then is the most beautiful woman in recent tennis history? You’ve got Gaby Sabatini from Argentina and Kournikova. We’ve mentioned Steffi. There’s Chrissie, with her All-American look, and Sharapova. We’ve got five finalists for you.
DT: Well that’s very tough. I’ll tell you, Sharapova to me is very beautiful, her gait is magnificent, and those shoulders. You don’t often say, gee, she has beautiful shoulders, but her shoulders are...

IT: She has small features...
DT: She’s beautiful. But, I would say that, maybe, Sabatini was the most beautiful.
IT: It was said of Sharapova that “no one since Chrissie Evert has walked on to Wimbledon’s Centre Court with such elegance.”
DT: That’s correct. I was amazed. I don’t know what the odds were, but I bet the odds were tremendous.
IT: It was only 14-1.
DT: Well that’s pretty bad odds. I couldn’t believe it. I didn’t get to watch it because I was at a big business meeting and...[now calling out to the Club’s general manager], Hey Mike. You working on that situation, Mike?
Mike: Yes sir, I already got a call in to...
Another voice: Hi, Mr. Trump.
DT: How are you?
Another Voice: I enjoyed your show.
DT: Thank you.

IT: So, let’s turn our attention to that avid tennis player we all love so much, Albert Einstein.
DT: Right.
IT: Your book quotes him as saying, “Imagination is more important than knowledge.”
DT: I think it is. There is nothing like imagination. Now, you have to know how to use it. Some people have imagination, but they don’t know what to do with it. Perhaps a better statement would be that imagination that you know what to do with [is better than knowledge].
IT: Then there was the quote in your book from ol’ Abe Lincoln, who said, “Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.” Has that been a problem for you? Have you seen that?
DT: What does that mean?
IT: It means that anyone can deal with problems, but when you give someone power, that’s when...
DT: Well, I’ve seen many people change a lot with power. Power can change a person greatly. I’ve seen people get better, but usually I’ve seen people get worse. I’ve seen people go crazy and become power-hungry. They were nobody and all of the sudden they develop power. I’ve seen it politically. All of the sudden they become total monsters. And they usually crash and burn.
IT: Donald, you’ve long said that you don’t do your projects for the money.
DT: If I did, I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing here. I’d build a much lesser course. I’d just start raking it in.
IT: Is there too much emphasis on money in our culture?
DT: Yeah. What I do is the best job. I build the best buildings. I build the best clubs and golf courses, and then they just sort of take care of themselves. I don’t think in terms of money. But I probably make more money because I do the best job — even though I take more time and I spend more money. Like the Trump World Tower opposite the UN. It’s so successful.

art seitz
Top: Never mind Sharapova, Kournikova or Graf, Donald picked Gaby. Bottom: Tennis Schmooz: Donald, former Warner CEO Terry Semel and Chrissie Evert.

IT: It had a lot of opposition. [Critics didn’t want a 90-story tower diminishing the U.N.]
DT: Tremendous opposition. I could have built a very mundane, simple building. But I wanted to make a great building... Those girls over there were crying, I was, like, what’s going on? So, what happened is, I built a building that was a great success. I took the time. I never could have done that if I had built a regular building.
IT: So, you have to take risks...
DT: The girl over there is crying, do you notice that? Is she okay? [Now Trump calls out to a group of three teens across the restaurant.] Is she okay, gals — is she okay? Did you lose your boyfriend or something? The only way a girl would cry like that is if you lost your boyfriend, right? Are you okay? Do you want a free Coke or something?
Teenage girl: No, I’m really laughing.
DT: Laughing? It sounds like you’re crying, you’re wiping tears out of your face — laughing is better.
Teenage girl: I’ve been laughing so hard.
DT: Cute though, aren’t they?
[Editor’s note: Later the girls said they were giggling so hard because they were imagining what it would be like to go out on a date with Trump.]
IT: I’ll wrap this up.
DT: Yeah, I gotta go.
IT: So, at the tryouts for The Apprentice, they say potential contestants have to be able to take risks, succeed in a cutthroat environment and think critically. Don’t you think those three relate to tennis?
DT: Absolutely. Sharapova’s the best recent example. She came out swinging like a maniac. Most people would say, just sit back, enjoy playing, keep the ball in play. But she was swinging. I’ve never seen anyone go at a ball like that. She was hitting winners and hitting harder than Serena.
IT: And Serena is used to dominating.
DT: Tell me. I didn’t watch the match — I only heard — did Sharapova just dominate?
IT: Yeah. She dominated, Serena got flustered. Maria was fearless.
DT: Do you think Sharapova’s beauty had something to do with the misses? Serena is used to going out there and...
IT: Kickin’ ass.
DT: She’s also used to looking like the star. Now, all of the sudden she’s facing this girl who’s a supermodel beauty. Do you think that had an impact on Serena?
IT: Well, Sharapova was born in Russia, her parents fled Chernobyl. She and her dad came to America with just 700 bucks and she dove right into the cauldron of American competition. She got much stronger, stronger than a lot of the other girls who stayed in Russia.
DT: But do you think her beauty intimidated Serena? I think she looked across the court and said, I’m playing against a supermodel. I think it had an impact.
IT: Serena has also lost her focus. You’ve talked about how in your business career you lost focus. Well, Serena was asked, what’s more important, winning an Oscar or winning Wimbledon? Any tennis player would say Wimbledon — she said the Oscar.
DT: Serena’s had so much, so young. This loss could be great for her. Maybe she’ll go back to work. I actually read a story where Serena was using the early matches at Wimbledon to get into shape for the finals.
IT: Talk to me about aura. You’ve said people at first told you not to use your name to build up the Trump brand. But you said screw that. You built up the Trump brand and now it’s really helped you. Aura in sports and in business, is it real important?
DT: Aura is the whole thing. Perception is an amazing word. If the perception is there, then...But, it doesn’t always work. The perception was that Serena couldn’t be beaten, but she got her ass kicked. So, you never know. You still have to produce the goods. But perception and aura are very important. I gotta go.

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